Faith & Works
Posted By Brett on September 1, 2010
Here is an exchange I had a while back that I thought may of interest to some. It was a good in house discussion on the relationship between faith (belief or doctrine) and works. My comments are in black
I want to say much, but it all boils down to my belief that Love does, indeed, trump “correct theology.” Mostly because Love is unconditionally, unquestionably, and perfectly illustrated & spelled out in the blood of Christ and His resurrection;
But don’t you see that that is theology? You cannot separate it. You cannot have the love you spell out above without a corresponding christology. You cannot speak meaningfully about the blood without a corresponding doctrine of atonement. The resurrection of Christ, and all that signifies, is theology.
whereas Theology is a perpetually murky territory in which the definition of “correct” is more a matter of who fights best, not whose truth is actually True. We’ve debated everything for centuries, started wars over it all, and all we’ve got to show for it are bodies strewn about and an increasingly fractured Body of Christ.
I think that is a false dichotomy. The displays of “love” on daytime talk shows are murkier yet. The strange love triangles and twisted relationships on display are good examples of people seeking love without thinking properly about it. And we would be sadly mistaken to think that the behavior on these shows is out of the ordinary. It is tragically too common. “But that is not real love” you may object. That is exactly the point. We need a good understanding of what love should look like. We need a theology of charity.
Moreover, do you see how you just mingled doctrine and works? Ideas have consequences. Bad theology promotes war and bloodshed. If you want to stop the bloodshed you have to get to the level of ideas. In as much as you are arguing for good works you are promoting a certain doctrine of Christian ethics (and that is good!) We need people like you to challenge the ideas and thinking of the rest of us. And you need the rest of us to challenge your ideas and thinking. Bad theology begets bad works (the fighting and wars you spoke of).
That’s not to say we shouldn’t engage our minds as an act of Love and worship. But too often the study of doctrine becomes a tower of babel, a means of reaching God and alienating those who aren’t ready to climb.
Then it is not good theology (notice how Christ uses doctrine to correct bad works in Mark 7:1-12). Doctrine is a belief; it is a set of teachings. If you agree that the parable of the good Samaritan was a set of good teaching then you agree to good doctrine. Every time you type on the keyboard you are promoting a set of beliefs – we all do. The only question is whether it is good doctrine or bad doctrine.
It’s not a starting place.
It is the only starting place. Thoughts precede actions. Whether they belong to you or someone else, thoughts precede actions.
From what I can tell, there’s one doctrine on which everything else hinges, and everything else is up for debate.
I like what Spurgeon said. He said that all doctrine is important but not all of it is essential. My heart and lungs are essential for my existence, my arm and nose are not. Since my arm and nose are not essential should I therefore chop them off? Not at all. They are still important. The fact that you argue for a certain ethic founded on a certain doctrine of charity which is an overflow of your christology etc betrays your statement that everything is up for debate.
And when the debate becomes violent (as it often does), it’s paramount to lay down it down and favor Love.
If it leads to violence, then it is not good doctrine. Shall I use the fact of bad works and fights to argue that therefore we should not do actions at all? From a technical standpoint, if it is the fights and wars you have issues with then you are really arguing against bad works. Shall I use that fact to argue that therefore good ideas trump works?
Cause neither of us will ever know if we’re actually truly right.
That’s not true (ironically). The fact that you argue against fighting means that you hold a certain set if Christian ethics that you believe is right.
That’s the inherent risk because we’re flawed.
Both action and thoughts have risk associated with them. Both can be sinful. Both need to be taken captive for the sake of Christ.
You may believe I’m totally wrong about something, or vice versa. And I’m totally OK with that, so long as you’re not judging my faith to be inauthentic or fruitless and telling me I might as well renounce Christ.
Are you saying that such an act of judgment would be wrong? If so then you believe that we can know what is right.
(Which is why I posted the original statement in the first place…because one Believer actually said that to another.)
And so you are promoting a certain doctrine of unity that you believe is found in scripture.
But Love for one another based in our alliance as sinners in need of Christ’s perfect grace – however it reveals itself in each of us – can only bind us together.
Exactly. You are promoting a doctrine of unity based upon your doctrine of anthropology (the universal sinfulness of man) and your doctrine of ecclesiology (how we are joined as a people in Christ).
Which is why I believe it trumps manmade, fallible doctrine.
The issue was never about man made fallible doctrine (as if that’s what I promote). Take away the fancy words (anthropology, Christology, doctrine, etc), they are not important. The point is that you have certain beliefs (doctrines) about Jesus (Christology), Man (anthropology), and good works (orthopraxy). We cannot separate doctrine and works. We cannot pit them against each other. This is not “either/or” but “both/and.”

Have you ever noticed what prayers look like in scripture? There are prayers of women that they may have children. There are prayers for deliverance from some danger. There are prayers for blessings and prayers for cursing. But while there are prayers for many different things, there are some prayers that are more frequent than others.
I recently came across a top ten list from an atheist who has been very vocal against Christianity. I thought there may be some worth in giving a brief response to the supposed delusions that Christians have. I’ll include his text in full over the next few posts in this series. His points are short and sweet so I’ll try to keep my comments short as well. Here are the first two of his top 10 delusions:






